Spool install pictures

[White90GT]

Here are a few pictures and steps in the process of switching to a spool:

First obviously remove your existing trac loc unit and c-clips (didn't get any pics of this process, but most are familiar with how to do it).

Next, have your new c-clip eliminators installed on your axle ends and new bearings pressed on your spool.

Next, remove your brake backing plate and the bolt holding your hard brake line to the axle tubes. Lift the entire assembly up and tie it back against the quad shock mounts so its out of the way.

Next, remove the axle tube seals and axle bearings from the axle tubes. This took me some time. I used a hammer claw to remove the seals which wasn't too bad. I tried to remove the bearings with the same method, but they weren't budging. Then I cut a piece of PVC pipe to side and put a bolt/washer in the end and slid it through the other side. All this did was busted up the PVC pipe and didn't move the bearing. Then I found a piece of steel pipe and cut it to length. This did the job nicely. It did knock the rollers of the bearing out for the most part, but it got the job done.

Next, measure about 1/4" from the mounting plate and mark your axle tube ends to be cut off.

Next, using a grinder, sawsall, dremel, hacksaw (forever) or whatever you have, make a nice neat cut to cut off about 1/2-3/4" of the axle tube ends off so that you have the needed 1/4" of material from the mounting plate for your c-clip eliminators to straddle. Use a file to smooth down the rough edges from your cut.

Next, clean out your axle tubes before proceeding to spool installation. I used a couple wads of paper towels and engine degreaser, then used the previously cut piece of PVC pipe to shove it through the tubes. After the tubes are clean, clean out the carrier area.

Now you can prepare and install the spool. Use loctite on all the bolts to bolt your ring gear onto the spool. Put your factory spacer in on one side of the mounting assembly, slide your bearing races on the spool bearings and put it up into place. Once up there put one main cap on to keep the spool from falling out while you get an idea of how many spacers you're going to need to get the spool close to the right position in relation to the ring gear. The moser spool I'm using has almost 1/4" of play, even with both factory spacers in place.

This is where I'm stopped for now. Hopefully Otis will come through with some rear end spacers I can buy off him as I don't have any. Otherwise I guess I'll have to order a install kit.

On with the pictures:

[White90GT]

Next are the pics of the c-clip eliminators installed and the spool.
On the eliminators, I picked these up used from Ryan Puckett for $10. I did have to install new bearings and seals in them, but still came out ahead on the deal. $115 at Pyle Bros including the bearings/seals and pressing on the eliminators, pressing bearings on the spool, and installing 1 new axle stud to replace my broken one.
Paid $100 for the spool delivered.

Just too bad I can't recoupe that cost by selling the old trac loc. Oh well.

[Otis!]

Good job Carl! I got busy last night and didn't get a chance to look for shims, but know I have a mess of them. Send your courier over and I'll load him up...

O!

[White90GT]

Good job Carl! I got busy last night and didn't get a chance to look for shims, but know I have a mess of them. Send your courier over and I'll load him up...

O!

Chris, just let me know when you've got some. I think Jason was planning to come see you soon for something anyways. He mentioned that he was supposed to come by your shop this past weekend but didn't get to.

Jason, you reading? I'll buy you a Little Ceasar's if you can pick them up for me.

[rxracer]

i might be able to. O!, do you have them at work?

[Otis!]

No sir, they are at home...

O!

[White90GT]

Chris, can you bag-em up and bring them to work. Jason can pick up from you, I'll let you guys figure out a time LOL. I'd just like to have them by this weekend so I can get it finished.

[white87306]

Is Neighbors Industries the newest sponsor of the White90GT racing team? With a co sponsor from Zippy? :razz:

[Blue91]

You are going to actually MEASURE the backlash and wear pattern, right???

[Wild Stallion]

You are going to actually MEASURE the backlash and wear pattern, right???
Only if he can get some russian blue for free!

[White90GT]

You are going to actually MEASURE the backlash and wear pattern, right???

As best I can with the tools I have, ie a feeler gauge. I'll provide Pizza if you want to come over this Sunday and show me how.

[Otis!]

Carl,

I mag base and a dial indicator can be had at Harbor Freight for less than $20 for the pair, on sale. I suggest you get a set, as it's useful for a number of things...

I have some marking compound I'll throw in as well...

O!

[white87306]

.

I have some marking compound I'll throw in as well...

O!

Free marking compound...........I know you're a sponsor now.

[Blue91]

Doing as Otis said and buying a magnetic base and dial indicator, and READING how to measure the stuff using his "how-to" article will cost close to the same price as buying pizza. I live on the other side of the world from you, sorry.

Gear Install How-To (http://pomoforacing.com/tech/FTWOG.pdf)
Gear Install Worksheet (http://pomoforacing.com/tech/Gearworksheet.pdf)

[Otis!]

Wow! We have tech articles?

...not sure I'd trust them though, considering the source...

[Neighbors]

Up yours O!, you no-tooth-having, inbred SOB!

...and White, no way in hell! Bwaahahahahhaha!

[White90GT]

So pinion depth may have changed even though I'm using the same gears as before? I was thinking just the side to side shimming would come into play here, not how far out the pinion gear is.

[Otis!]

No, but you need to check backlash and ring gear run-out Carl. Feeler gages won't get you there for either...

[white87306]

No, but you need to check backlash and ring gear run-out Carl. Feeler gages won't get you there for either...


I heard that it was fine to skip these steps........you just might end up a carrier that can't be sold.

[Blue91]

LOL, so wrong.

[White90GT]

I heard that it was fine to skip these steps........you just might end up a carrier that can't be sold.

:fu:

[Otis!]

Geez Carl, four days and you're calling me about the shims? Did you take into consideration that maybe Jason and I are both busy and haven't found simultaneous free moments for our paths tp cross? You're almost as bad as that Rene guy I stole the T5 from, LOL! Good things the shims are mine and you can't claim I stole them... :D

A note to all: Believe it or not, I have a life outside of work; I don't get up in the morning worrying about how I'm going to get free parts to somebody across town. I work at my own pace, when I have time, and if that doesn't suite you, then take that into account and don't bother me. My time is valuable to me, and my family, so if you need something from me make it worth -my- while, not yours...

BTW, I expect a pizza in trade for the shims and marking compound... :D

[white87306]

O-

Why haven't you come over to help set the valvetrain on the 393? I hope you don't think I'm going to buy my own rod lenght checking tool, and use it myself. I'm calling you expecting an explination in
5,4,3,2,........

Signed,
dissapointed

[Blue91]

ROFL! Turned in to one of the best threads ever on this site for NUMEROUS reasons/responses.

Otis, I hate you. ;)

[White90GT]

Geez Chris, sorry I hit a nerve man. I was just trying to get my stuff back together on Sunday. It doesn't look like its gonna happen, so don't worry about it. I'll go by Pyle Bros next week and see if they've got some to sell me. Nevermind my PM.

[Otis!]

ROFLOL! Carl, don't back down because I spoke what I thought and felt. Just wanted to let you know I have family and things that occupy my time, as you do. I offered the free parts, yes, because -you- need them, and are in over your head, IMHO. You need help and I offered, and are getting antsy about the help, w/o really trying to help yourself. If you were to have read the article I wrote some seven years ago -before- you started the job, you'd understand what it might and would take. Then again, if you would have read it, you'd understand that the job(s) are worth more than pizza and beer (BTW, that's -not- on the universal currency exchange list)...

You make good money Carl, and I commend you for what you've done with the car, but at times you need to understand that there's value in things besides their monetary 'worth'...

I could have done the whole rear in a day, if I had time and wasn't insulted in the first place. Nerve? Hit one? Yes, you did, several years ago with the SFC's and you continue to conduct your business the same way. I understand that's the way you are, and don't hold it against you. Now, please understand what I wrote above about me, and take that to heart...

If you still need the shims, let me know. I may try to get to Jason's tomorrow, but cannot commit 100%. I don't want to hold your 'program' up, so the ball is in your court.

[White90GT]

The SFC's? What happened with that, I bought those off of you like 5 years ago man. I make decent money, but also have a lot of debt to go with it. The only way I can continue to race is because I try to win enough back during the year to pay for this rather expensive hobby. I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to my racing, its the only way I can continue to do it.
If I could pay you $100 to setup the rear end, I would. If I could get out more to help the rest of the PoMoFo's on their projects, I would. I'm appreciative of the help I have had with my car from Brent and Jason. I understand that many of you live nowhere near me and can't come out, so I don't typically ask. I've tried to help out Jason and Brent when I can.
If you've got the shims bagged up and get to Jason's, great. I'm going to try to go by his party tomorrow night late.
I'm sorry if I hit a nerve man. I wasn't trying to push you. I had mentioned that I'd like to try to get those shims this week, today was the last weekday, so if you had them with you at work, I would have driven up there to get them, but you didn't, so be it. I was hoping to get the rear set on Sunday and done, but I still don't have the tools I need to measure it properly anyways.

[Otis!]

You bought the SFC's from me about seven years ago, and as I recall you PM'ed me about four times that day, and called me twice, wanting to come get them that night, at my house, w/o ever meeting you. I don't do that, to protect my family and less importantly my property. You -had- to have them ASAP to get them on yourself, as your wife wouldn't let you spend the $150 (at the time) to let me install them. You were the first person (and only up until six months ago) that I sold a loose set to, and I drove out to a Sealy event with the primary goal of meeting you. Why did I do it? Two reasons: one, top help -you- (you see a trend here?), and two to get you out of my hair (what little's left, LOL!). Here's a hint: the quickest way to irritate me is to pester me about what I consider a 'luxury' (aka non-essential) item...

We -all- have debts, but certainly different priorities...

Jason and I have been in pretty close contact this week, and -we- both have tried to accomodate you; that's the point you are missing here. We have both tried, and are both geared to try to help others, but have not ahd the ability to cross paths. I'm not asking you (or anybody) to scratch my back, but get what you get when you don't reciprocate. I'm trying, and still trying, but if Jason and I have failed you, then maybe you ought to think about the goals you set, and if you conveyed those clearly enough to all involved...

Go ahead and go to Pyle's, if you want (no threat to me, LOL!); they'll charge you $30-50 for shims that are included in a $100 bearing install kit. Did you use new bearings in your rear? Did you ask anybody? If you resused the bearings off your old diff, do yourself a favor and pull it apart -now-! I don't want your car taking out my car due to a $15 bearing failure. Your life and mine are worth -much- more than that...

Chris, not O!

[White90GT]

Yes I put new bearings on the carrier and also new bearings and seals in the used c-clip eliminators.

Well at least now I know what I did wrong to you. I apologize for that. I thought I had made it clear in previous posts that I was trying to get the rear together this weekend and that said, I waited until Friday to call you and ask about it. I talk to Jason almost every day and he said you guys hadn't had a chance to get together. This is why I called Friday, if you had the shims together, I would have been ready to drive out there and pick them up myself.
Oh well, if you got them together and make it to Jason's today, great, if not maybe Sunday or next week or something.
Again, I'm sorry about what happened before and me pushing on this now. You do a lot for the people on this board and I'm glad there's someone like you out there to help out.

[REX331]

Doing as Otis said and buying a magnetic base and dial indicator, and READING how to measure the stuff using his "how-to" article will cost close to the same price as buying pizza. I live on the other side of the world from you, sorry.

Gear Install How-To (http://pomoforacing.com/tech/FTWOG.pdf)
Gear Install Worksheet (http://pomoforacing.com/tech/Gearworksheet.pdf)


OMG I used that in 2002 to install the 4.56's in my car. LOL Didnt realize they were Otis's :) Great Instructions.

BTW Otis, I still have your Engine Cradle :usa: :eek:

Rex

[White90GT]

Chris brought the shims over to Jason's last night. Thanks again Chris. Whatever I don't use, I'll get them back to you and I owe you one bro. Hope you made home safely and that Cuban didn't mess you up LOL.

[Otis!]

The Cuban didn't bother me, but there were a couple casualities!

Good luck with the install!

[White90GT]

The Cuban didn't bother me, but there were a couple casualities!

Good luck with the install!

Looks like its going to use 7 of the thin shims, 2 on the PS and 5 on the DS. My cousin is supposed to be bringing his mag and dial indicator so I can measure the backlash. Backlash is basically just the "play" between the ring and pinion gear correct?

Can you explain ring gear runout and how to measure it? I think its just setting the dial indicator on the outside of the ring, up near the teeth and making sure that it doesn't wobble/move in and out.

Also, have you installed c-clip elims with factory brakes? There's a cable that goes between the brake shoes that is awefully close to the eliminator and I'm wondering if its going to hit when the brakes are applied.

[gt350mustang]

Carl, my cable either rides against the block or is very close. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Blue91]

Carl... READ THE ARTICLE I POSTED ON PAGE 1 OF THIS THREAD!!!! It totally explains what backlash and runout is and how to measure it AND THAT'S WHY I POSTED IT!!! If you're going to ask how to do something, make some effort to LEARN about it, especially if you're trying to do it yourself. Quit taking the easy way out and asking others. Do some learning/research yourself!

[White90GT]

Carl... READ THE ARTICLE I POSTED ON PAGE 1 OF THIS THREAD!!!! It totally explains what backlash and runout is and how to measure it AND THAT'S WHY I POSTED IT!!! If you're going to ask how to do something, make some effort to LEARN about it, especially if you're trying to do it yourself. Quit taking the easy way out and asking others. Do some learning/research yourself!


Fred, I printed and read the section of the article that is going through setting the carrier in place. I didn't see in the article a particular definition of backlash and how to check it, however I did search the web and found another article that shows it. I had originally posted my previous post before I found that other article.
I think I've got it figured out. My cousin didn't get by with his dial indicator today, so I'll either buy one tomorrow or he'll bring his over and I'll get this finished up this week.

Might hit the track this weekend.

[White90GT]

I went by Harbor Freight on Spencer yesterday and picked up a mag base and dial indicator. They were on sale, $17 for the pair. The mag base it self was listed for 17.99, its the multi-adjustment model on the website.
Hopefully I'll be able to spend some time on the car this evening after work.

[Blue91]

Less than pizza!

[red95gts]

Don't knock the pizza. Pizza is quite valuable these days, from what I hear.

[White90GT]

Spool install completed! Axle and c-clip eliminator install completed.
Still have to install the lower control arms tomorrow and see what other misc crap I can pull off. I found that I could easily remove the bumper supports in the rear (I had already cut the bumper off at the frame rail) just one bolt and they slid right out. Also remove the quad shocks and their mount from the frame rail.
The ctrl arms I have are the granatelli adjustables with adjustable spring perch. Brand new, got them for $75 several months ago, just never installed.

[gt350mustang]

Don't knock the pizza. Pizza is quite valuable these days, from what I hear.

That would depend on the quality of the pizza. I am not doing much for a totino's frozen special.

[Timebomb]

Good Deal Carl!

Hey D what is it that Pizza gets you these days? Inquiring minds want to know!

[White90GT]

Oh yeah, Nay, the backlash came out between .080 and .090 and I checked in at least 8 different places around the gear. When I got the .070 number, I had the dial indicator tip a little further in on the gear, putting it out near the tip of the tooth got me the .080 that we needed.

[Blue91]

Uhhhh, .080-.090????? I HOPE you mean .008-.009. If not, pull it back apart, reshim and try again.

[gt350mustang]

Uhhhh, .080-.090????? I HOPE you mean .008-.009. If not, pull it back apart, reshim and try again.


Oops, that would be a lot of slop.

[White90GT]

Yep, I mis-typed it, I mean 8 thousandths, between .008 and .009.

[Otis!]

There you go; good deal!

Now that's it's all done, you have the mag base and indicator to help you degree a cam, check pushrod length, crank endplay, transmission endplay, check roundness on parts, etc. These two jewels paid for themselves already doing the gear set-up.

Now that you have a perspective on what's involved, and the idea of replacing the pinion and bearings and setting pinion depth added to that, is $200 out of line to rebuild a rear completely? Just a mental check for me...

[89LX306]

Now that you have a perspective on what's involved, and the idea of replacing the pinion and bearings and setting pinion depth added to that, is $200 out of line to rebuild a rear completely? Just a mental check for me...

Yes. It's probably on the low side. There is a reason people charge through the nose for this kind of work. It is very detail oriented and can result in catastrophic failure if performed incorrectly.

[rxracer]

hell, i think $200 is fair just to remove the damn carrier! i had a helluva time pulling/beating mine out.

[Blue91]

LOL @ Jason.

Agree with Kyle.

+1000000 for Nay.

[White90GT]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Chad82GT]

There you go; good deal!

Now that's it's all done, you have the mag base and indicator to help you degree a cam, check pushrod length, crank endplay, transmission endplay, check roundness on parts, etc. These two jewels paid for themselves already doing the gear set-up.

Now that you have a perspective on what's involved, and the idea of replacing the pinion and bearings and setting pinion depth added to that, is $200 out of line to rebuild a rear completely? Just a mental check for me...

For the prices people charge to do a gear swap here I could almost fly you in, pay you $200 and fly you home. Typical shop charges in the $400 range just for the gear swap... no bearing changes or "rebuild".... just the gears.

[Otis!]

I'd be willing to do that Chad! Line three or four up and you pocket the rest, LOL!

[Blue91]

Haha, like the days when people would fly someone in to a town to do a dynotune day and the guy would burn chips all day/weekend.

Line up a list of people and Nay will do consecutive gear swaps for the weekend, then spend the week there relaxing before going home.

[white87306]

O-
Do you need an apprentice/parts cleaner???

[Otis!]

As a matter of fact... :D

[red95gts]

O-
Do you need an apprentice/parts cleaner/cabana boy???

:eeek: :eeek: :eeek:

[Otis!]

Bwahahahahha! My rates just went up, considerably!

BTW D, I lost your rearend... :D

[red95gts]

DOH! ...And to think, that was my only redeeming quality! :(

[white87306]

D-

Leave me out of your fantasies...