Thinking of changing intakes

[HoustonLX]

I need some advice. I know my heads and intake are big for my lil 304 and I got them for when I did the 347. Problem is I may not be doing the stroker any time in the near future do to finacial reasons. So what I am thinking is maybe seeing if I can find a un-ported Holley intake to swap. The Holley Systemax intake is big to beggin with and I had the lower fully ported and the upper port matched by Brian Tooley at TEA. I am pretty sure this is killing velosity. Again, I got this for the future 347 which is now on hold.

My question is would a box stock Holley be better for my 302? I plan on keeping the heads as I alrwady have alot of $$$$ tied up in them. I have been following other cars on Corral.net and such with aggressive combos. I am seeing the Holley intake is making great power on cars even in box stock form. Would a intake that flows a lil less air then my ported Holley intake work better or is it the heads that would be the biggest opsticle on my combo? THe car runs good now and I know I have yet to maximize it to its fullest potential. I am just looking for ideas here. Thanks

Forgot to mention I have TEA ported TFS TW 185 heads.

[hillie16]

What about an ported Edelbrock Performer, then if you need a higher power application just switch to the RPM upper and port it if you need to. Give you a wide range just by swapping the upper and leaving the lower in place.

[maveRick]

Hillie,

You forgot to put your birth-weight in your sig. :D

[Guffinator]

That's funny Shane. I just swapped manifolds for the very same reason. My car hasn't been producing the HP that it should be. Even with good parts all the way it just wasn't making the power. I've seen several posts on various websites such as Corral (I'm sure you've seen the same posts) about how the Holley seems to be great for blown applications but it's not the best for NA ones. I recently traded my Systemax for a mildly ported Cobra and some cash. The car definitley feels like it's picked up a bit...it's still not making the horsepower it should be ( :mad: GAWDAMNITTT!) but it seemed to pick up quite a bit of low end. I think the Holley is a great manifold for large, blown, or really serious motors...but not for a "basic" 302.

[HoustonLX]

Well I have to dissagree that the Systemax only makes good power on blown application. But I think it only works good if it is matched with everything else correctly. From everything I am seeing, the Holley is a great intake when used with TW heads where the Edelbrock Performer is best for AFR heads. Brian Tooley at TEA suggested the Holley for my heads. I do not want to change "brands" of intakes. I am simply thinking of going from ported to un-ported to gain back some of the air velosity. Again, I went with the full ported set-up for the future 347 I had planned on building.

Something is deffinately not right with your car Chris. I don't think the intake was the problem. Your car should have been making 290-310 rwhp vs what it did at Elite. I dunno what else is in the rest of your combo, but I would look at fuel, and timing. I think there is much more to be had out of what you already have.

LOL....I say that knowing there is much more to be had with my combo also.

[Guffinator]

I agree. The motor should be making around 300. Like I said it's all good stuff. At the dyno day the car had intake gasket problems....that's why it was smoking so badly. It was sucking oil. That's why I pulled the manifold off in the first place. It's definitley making more power now...still don't think it's making the 300 like it should be though. I think I'm about to yank the cam and go a different route.

[Traceman]

Well I have the stock systemax stuff and I am currently in the process of getting my 351 in the works. Probably will be selling the intakes and heads soon to buy something more matched for that engine. Anyway if you want to go through the trouble of swapping them out you are welcome to try mine for awhile to test your ideas. Call me for more info if interested. (281) 353-8240

[TxBandit]

Shane, swapping to an unported intake will help you a little, but I believe that your heads are too large. restricting the airflow before the head will create more velocity in the intake but what will happen when it gets to the heads?? You'll have the same problem just not to the same extent. I also believe that the only cure for a cylinder head that's too big is more RPM. Not sure how fast your turning you motor now, but if it was mine I'd stick it on 7500. We turned the little motor 7500 for years with no problems and it had the same parts you've got. You can try swapping intakes, but I can't say for certain if you'll gain anything or not, my guess would be that you'll gain a little. You can spin the motor and I can assure you you'll make more power. Bottom line...small cubic inch motors require RPM to make hp.

To put it in better perspective....look at a 4V cleveland vs a 2V cleveland.

Just my .02

Troy

[HoustonLX]

I understand that Troy. Problem is my car seems to run out of gas at 5,900 rpm's. That being even though Bennett said this cam will make peak power around 6,100 rpm's. The car seemed to go flat above 5,900 rpm's. I have given thought to a custom cam ground specific to my combo. Problem with that is the pistons not being notched properly and I would more then likely have to fly-cut them while in the block. I have no desire to go pulling the motor just yet. I guess I will probably just hang on to what I have and try to improve my driving. Thats the biggest opsticle right now...:D

[red95gts]

Shane,

I agree with Troys comments about the size of the cylinder head. The heads combined with the intake are killing velocity. As he mentioned, just putting a smaller intake on it would increase the velocity within the intake tract, but as the airflow reached the intake port of the head, it would slow to a crawl. Your heads spec out at 185cc intake ports after porting (an increase of 15cc over "stock" TFS). However, you can't compare that port volume with an inline Windsor head as the port length (and therefore cross-sectional area) is different. TFS intake port is roughly .5" shorter (actual is .4x" i believe, but this keeps the math simple..lol) Doing a simple proportion leaves you with: 5/x = 4.5/185 and you end up with: 205.555cc. So, as far as the cross-sectional area goes, compare your cylinder head to an AFR 205cc or a Windsor Sr. head. Pretty big stuff for a low-comp, low-rpm 304ci....

As far as making this stuff work optimally, you are gonna need RPM. Unfortunately, a hydro roller is only good for ~ 6400rpm before you encounter valve float. Add some lightened valvetrain parts and you can extend that out a couple hundred rpm (AFM is claiming 7K on their stuff). Problem is, a stock shortblock isn't going to put up with too much of that...

If it were me, I'd keep the intake and either add rpm, a stroker kit, or a blower down the road. As we saw this weekend...the car runs damn good and keeps getting faster each time out. Yes, you are losing some power with the big induction, but the loss apparantly isn't too great..:)

[hillie16]

Originally posted by maveRick
Hillie,

You forgot to put your birth-weight in your sig. :D

LOL

Better now?

[maveRick]

Much! :D

(I'm just jealous of all the sh*t you have)

[AGirlWithACoupe]

Originally posted by hillie16


LOL

Better now?

First rule of fight club: Never listen to maveRick. :p

Cristina-
I am Jack's PMS.

[maveRick]

Originally posted by AGirlWithACoupe
First rule of fight club: Never listen to maveRick. :p

Cristina-


I saw the movie, The Fight Club. Hmm.. Don't remember that line.

So, I guess that makes you a.......


"LIAR! LIAR! PANTS ON FIRE!" :p

[hillie16]

Originally posted by maveRick
Much! :D

(I'm just jealous of all the sh*t you have)

I could hone your jealousy much more if I could get it all in the car. The intake was supposed to be done a few times now, the gears I haven't had the money to pay someone else to do, and the Saleen bumper needs painted.

[hillie16]

Originally posted by Neighbors
Hillie,

I'd encourage you to do the gear install yourself. It's not that bad, and once you o one you can use the skill to barter with...

I really would like to learn, I'm just afraid of having to tear it down and do it a few times to get it right, since the car is the daily driver right now because I'm having so many problems with my Bronco, I don't have the option right now. I have to do the Intake on a weekend so I have it to drive to work on Monday, and I have to do it at my parents because I don't have a driveway at my house (or even a yard that I can pull it into lol)