Timing not advancing!

[White90GT]

Lets hear some ideas. Many of you have seen my dilemma, but for those that haven't:
Car is EFI, still stock computer, no chip or tuner. Set base timing without spout connector in, put spout connector in and it bumps 5 degrees and stays there. Rev the motor up past 3000 rpm and it still never moves. In other words, set base timing at 15*, put spout in, it bumps to 20* and stays still even when revving the engine. No increase in timing through the electronics.
Things I've done for resolution:
Swapped spout connectors with another from a working car.
Swapped computers with another from a working car.
Reseated every wire harness in the passenger kick panel.
Reseated the salt/pepper harnesses under the hood.
Swapped distributors with another used one about a year ago, but haven't tried since (didn't resolve problem).

So are there any sensors that could be telling the computer not to advance the timing?????

[Blue91]

I pasted this url to some eec friends of mine, and this is ONE suggestion that came up.....

Everytime you've checked the timing, have you used the same timing light? If so, try with a different one and see if the results change.

Let me know.... I will post more suggestions if I get any...

[89 coupe]

Originally posted by White90GT
Lets hear some ideas. Many of you have seen my dilemma, but for those that haven't:
Car is EFI, still stock computer, no chip or tuner. Set base timing without spout connector in, put spout connector in and it bumps 5 degrees and stays there. Rev the motor up past 3000 rpm and it still never moves. In other words, set base timing at 15*, put spout in, it bumps to 20* and stays still even when revving the engine. No increase in timing through the electronics.
Things I've done for resolution:
Swapped spout connectors with another from a working car.
Swapped computers with another from a working car.
Reseated every wire harness in the passenger kick panel.
Reseated the salt/pepper harnesses under the hood.
Swapped distributors with another used one about a year ago, but haven't tried since (didn't resolve problem).

So are there any sensors that could be telling the computer not to advance the timing?????

This sounds like normal operation for your car. The cars computer knows by the stock programming that you are not under a load (as in actually driving the car). It also has a neutral switch input which tells it you are not in gear. You can not look at timing advance without being on a rear wheel dyno. Then you will be able to see what is actually happening under different situations. The programmers are not going to create a big timing change just from reving the motor in neutral. This would be way too much extra work for them :blue:

[White90GT]

Yes I've been using the same timing light. Its the Craftsman model that has the degree wheel on it. I have a white mark on the balancer at zero degrees and I set timing by advancing the light. I don't remember if this was happening before I bought my light (was borrowing one, but it was the same that I'm using now).

Martin, is this the way your car does? Thing about this is that I tried the computer out of Troy's car which is an A9L for a T5 car, while mine is an A9P for an AOD car. Still had the same problem. Everyone and there brother is saying the car should show more advance when I rev it up.

Also, leaving the spout out and setting the timing flat at 30* made the car much more responsive down low and I'm now spinning the 28x11.5x15 ET streets, though I didn't pick up much on the big end.

[Frank5L]

I would say that the spark advance will be determinate on the load. If its in nuetral then the computer will know not to advance the timing that much. Hook up datalogging equipment and see how much advance you have under load. Otherwise, set the total timing where you want it, and do not plug the spout back in.

[Shaggy]

As to why your spark is not advanceing i haven't a good clue off the top of my head but i can attest to the fact that it should advance when you rev it even unloaded....fyi there is no other way to set total timing without a dyno or someother load device if you couldn't and also i have seen it with my own eyes more times that i can count....that being said since you have tried a "known" good ecu the next suggestion would be the TFI module or a broken spout wire.

[White90GT]

OK guys, I fixed it! For future reference check the TPS and IAB next time someone has this problem. I'm not sure which one, but I'm guessing it was the TPS due to the rigging it took to make the Explorer 65mm throttle body fit the stock TPS sensor.
I put on the BBK throttle body that I bought from Tim and he had given it to me with the TPS and IAB in place. I checked the timing last night and voila it is doing what it is supposed to and getting full advance from the computer. Plug the spout in and get about 5-10 degrees additional advance over base timing. Rev it up to 2500-3500 and it zooms on up to about 38 degrees or so. Now I have to start tuning with proper timing again. With the car so loud though, it makes it difficult to hear any detonation/pinging. I set it to 16 degrees base last night and it didn't seem to be pinging. Guess I'll have to try it at the track.